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Green but dim

by loiswakeman @ 13/09/2007 - 15:54:05

Two things caught my attention today on the Today programme.

First, a piece about Terry Leahy's allegation yesterday that it was not practical for Tesco to stop selling tungsten lightbulbs, since a significant number of their customers have fittings that require them.

Now, I am the last person to defend Tesco against their more obvious failings – but in this case, even a householder with a rudimentary understanding of lighting would probably defend them.

So, when some greenie was wheeled out to explain why Tesco was wrong, one might expect the interviewer (Sarah Montague) to have mugged up just for 5 minutes before questioning her. But no: just a "Why was Tesco wrong then?" and very little in the way of incisive questioning.

Point 1: low-energy bulbs are not commonly available in unusual sizes (e.g. candle, pygmy or for older spotlighters) either at all, or except at prohibitively high prices.

Point 2: At least until very recently, they couldn’t be used with dimmer switches. And the ones that can cost an arm and a leg (e.g. £12.95 vs about 35p).

Point 3: basically, despite what Ms Green said, they are not really anything like as bright as the tungsten "equivalent". 11W = 60W, and 15W = 100W – my arse, as Jim Royle would say.

We have low-energy bulbs in most fittings now, and an old house with small windows. As a result, our evenings and overcast days are spent in a dim religious light. For example, in the kitchen, we have two 60W equivalents over the table. For the first month or so they were about as bright as the old bulbs, even if they cast a ghastly pallor over all. But now, a year or two on, they are as dull as ditchwater, and not really up to the job of illuminating things brightly enough to do close work. Which is fine for those who sit slack-jawed in front of their TVs of an evening, but not for me if I need to sew a button on or do other such chores.

They touched on point number 2, but conveniently ignored the other points or skated round them.

If it's that hard to have a sensible discussion about something very easy – how hard would it be for them to discuss a complex issue? Too hard, is the answer.

The other thing I will save for tomorrow!

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menhirmenhir [Member]
13/09/07 @ 17:54

Hi Lois, I heard that discussion too. I do not have the scientific knowledge to discuss the science of the issue.

I did pick up that there were some difficulties with the lighting equivalents with dimmer switches as they are dimmed and brightened, and the other element(no pun intended) which we all know about, is that lo-energy bulbs take a while to 'warm up' to full light potential.

The speaker also mentioned that lo-energy light was much the same as the soft light obtained from the soft-light tungsten bulbs. I would say that particular light was very pleasant from what I remember. Depending what equivalent wattage an individual chooses, you can more-or-less obtain light levels bright enough for most night time purposes.

Then of course, there was the preference for using halogen in the kitchen. As far as I am concerned, that's okay too. Mine have lasted a very long time. I also have one or two work lamps that use halogen and find those absolutely fine too.

The question of whether to sell or not to sell is a question
about current manufacturing, general commerce and customer choice, choice which is becoming more limited by the week, in an effort to manipulate people to shop and think, convert and live in their homes in a particular way. The analogy that springs to mind is penning us in like sheep.

loiswakemanloiswakeman [Member]
http://lois.co.uk
13/09/07 @ 18:04

You've been luckier with your halogens: our seem to die at depressingly familiar intervals and are not cheap, to boot. But at least I can safely use a sharp knife under them!

However, I have to say that the (budget) low-energy fluorescents shed a rather unpleasant light, to me, without the warmth you get from tungsten - and as for warming up: how long do you have to wait? Even if we switch them on at teatime in the winter, they are still deadly dull by bedtime. Perhaps we should buy the expensive branded ones - but that's hardly an inducement to change over.

Yours dimly!

menhirmenhir [Member]
13/09/07 @ 18:17

Sounds like I have been lucky with my halogens.

Our bulbs aren't the most expensive but they're not the cheapest either. We have a variety of light bulbs around the house, the hall has the equivalent of 60 watt (I can't remember what that ism possibly 15W?)One bedroom as yet has not been 'greened' but the bulbs last ages and ages, we're not using the central light much. The bedside lamps have lo-energy and they're not used much more. I have one candle bulb which dies about every 18 months so I don't feel bad about that. The kitchen downlights are a pain and I am wondering if I can fit something else into those.

Usually when my halogen bulbs start to depart this lit earth, they almost all do it in quick succession, probably because I changed over to their use at a certain point in time.

Our house is probably nowhere near as old as yours so there may be a fittings issue or, perhaps the supply from the main transformer is not yet matched up to 'green needs' :?:

loiswakemanloiswakeman [Member]
http://lois.co.uk
14/09/07 @ 09:05

We have the same spates of blown bulbs in the kitchen - as you say, probably they all last about the same time.

When I lived in Windsor as a child, we had a coal shed in the side of the house which was illuminated by an ancient bulb of about 8-10W. It was there when we moved in, and worked for many years. When it finally blew, my Pa was very tickled by the fact it had a bamboo filament - which probably made it at least 50 years old! Even a modern one would be hard pushed to match that.

Our electric supply is only guaranteed to 15Kw (I think); it comes from a small transformer box mounted on a pole at the back of the garden, shared with two other houses. We've been told we can't use power showers, and I know that when next door uses his arc-welder, all the lights flicker!

menhirmenhir [Member]
18/09/07 @ 22:15

You are a case in point, Lois, 'greening' in the proposed terms, isn't possible for everyone.

I was tickled pink to read your account of the lamp with the bamboo filament. :)

EllieGantEllieGant pro
13/09/07 @ 19:36

I share your misgivings, Lois. We've tried hard to switch to low-energy bulbs, but they are impractical for working by. And we can't get them for the rooms where the level of lighting wouldn't matter so much, like the bathroom, because of the lack of headroom. So its glorius halogen for me in the kitchen/breakfast room or else I end up with something akin to the depression that is attributed to SAD!

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